Talk:Vivre Card
Reference? "A biblicard is made from part of a persons fingernail which is then made into paper. " Sounds strange, where in the manga is that stated? :Chapter 489 as explained by Lola here.17:13, 16 March 2008 (UTC) Biblicard Vs Vivilicard Okay, someone rewrote the whole thing now I've got to reason this questio: What is it? We can't haev two variations of the same spelling it seems so lets get this sorted fast please. One-Winged Hawk 18:45, 25 October 2008 (UTC) :Both are acceptable in one or way another such as in the case of Oz vs. Odz. Unless Oda writes it, might as well stick to what is commonly known. From what I gather however, Biblicard seems to come from "Bible" which originally meant text or paper in ancient language. So putting it together with the word "card" means it is a paper card I think. As for Vivre, I don't know. :As for the anon rewriting the whole page, I guess it can be considered as a form of vandalism as it was completely out of the blue.Mugiwara Franky 18:55, 25 October 2008 (UTC) ::Actaully, Bibli is related to books (Bible = the term comes from "collection of books", which the bible is). I can't remember all the proper termiology here as I have a splitting headache this evening (long story short; London anime Expo). One-Winged Hawk 19:00, 25 October 2008 (UTC) :Vivre is the French word for live/life Are You Serious 09:21, 16 November 2008 (UTC) :: And considering they have the nickname "paper of life", it should be Vivrecard. Kinda like "the town of the beginning and the end" being Loguetowns nickname. -- 02:01, 27 December 2008 (UTC) So what is it exactly? Which one is more popular? Drunk Samurai 07:51, 11 May 2009 (UTC) I generally say Biblicard, but with how it's probably pronounced, it can be taken a number of different ways. Subrosian 09:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC) :Given it's known as the "Paper of Life" and Viva (or is it Vivar?) means "life", I'm inclined to go with Vivre Card. Sgamer82 --Sgamer82 22:47, 5 July 2009 (UTC) Yeah, since it's epithet is "the paper of life" Vivre card makes the most sense. I vote we change it to that.Tako8Yaki 00:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :Well, I noticed that "vivre" has the most votes, but should it be 1 word (Vivrecard) or 2 words (Vivre card)? And if it's 2, shoud 'card' be capitalized or just 'Vivre'? I changed it to Vivre card for now since that's what Sgamer82's changing it into in all of the other pages. ::Kaizoku-Hime 01:11, 12 August 2009 (UTC) For the record, I've mostly been using "Vivre Card" as two words, both capitalized because it seemed like it should be two words and "Vivre Card" struck me as a proper name. Though I feel I should note that Stephen, whose translations I rate as among the best, used "vivrecard", one word, lowercase. I'll keep using two words capitalized since that's what I've been doing, though. --Sgamer82 01:35, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :Both capitalized? Okay, it's just that 'card' wasn't capitalized on this article. I'll move it again & change it now. :Kaizoku-Hime 01:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::You don't really have to, I think. This one's more a matter of pure personal preference than Vivre being arguable as correct over Bibli. It's probably okay either way.--Sgamer82 01:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :It seems that I can't anyway, since "Vivre Card" already exists as a REDIRECT. I'll let the administrator handle it. :Kaizoku-Hime 01:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC) Time to bump this. What is the actual proper spelling of it? Biblicard or Vivre Card? SeaTerror 02:21, May 13, 2011 (UTC) :I don't think we have more info than back then... sff9 (talk) 07:28, May 13, 2011 (UTC) Vivre Card vs. Vivrecard Okay, I'm a bit confused here. Which is more acceptable, two words or one word? The Japanese text has one word but the separated English words seem somewhat more English? Which would be more proper?Mugiwara Franky 13:15, February 17, 2010 (UTC) :This is the same scenario for Jean Bart, we've got the word separet even in his Japanese name profile, yet I've seen the guys at Arlong Park complain because in the manga it was one word. Regardless, I've no longer access to the raw since my old, old computer went and can't back either at Arlong Park on the VERY rare occusions it crops up so am indifferent. If its one word in Japanese, stick with one word for English. :Then again, some names have a great translation which comes out in a sentance. Hatsune Miku from Vocaloid, her name roughly comes out as "first voice of the future" or something like that (doing this from memory) in english translation. But we wouldn't write it as "firstvoice ofthefuture" now would we? Still for the sake of arguments, its Hatsune Miku in direct letter for letter script, you'd not actaully call her by her translated name as thats just silly. :In another light... carboard... dartboard... It wouldn't look out of place with either translation in English. There are some rules in English that don't add up. But I'd look at it this way, is its name like "Hardwood" as in the group of wood known by that name or "Hard Wood" as in describing a piece of wood as hard. One-Winged Hawk 13:30, February 17, 2010 (UTC) Vivre Cars How does it works Last chapter there was a huge discussion on the forum about how vivre cards works *Does the card follow the owner of the card *Does the card follow the other part of the card From Lola definition it is the 2d option while based on Nyon one it is more the first one. Main argument for the first one are that its doubtfull that Ace has still his vivre card in Impel Down plus what happen when it is divided in more than 2 Main arguments for the second one are Rayleigh comments in chapter 591 and that Lola state it that way plus there is no need to divide it if it follows the owner. Of course it follows the owner. If it followed the other pieces and if it was ripped more than once, than it would have to point you in all of these different directions. Plus, there is a need to rip it more than once. What if you get separated? *cough* Straw Hats *cough* Franky103 16:13, September 4, 2010 (UTC) What is your opinion on that topic. Kdom 15:34, July 13, 2010 (UTC) I think there is a "main" card, and the other pieces follow that. Also, Rayleigh said he left his Vivre Card with Shakky when he went to find Luffy on Amazon Lily, so that means the Straw Hats (at that time) would still be able to get to Sabaody. I know there are some holes in the logic, but that's how it appears to work to me.DancePowderer 16:18, September 4, 2010 (UTC) Compass A Vivre Card is a compass. One Piece clearly uses a relatively broad definition of compasses since none of the named compasses point to magnetic north, furthermore the South Bird doesn't even use magnetism or it would be screwed up by the islands. The definition of compass as given by the Collins English Dictionary is "an instrument for finding direction, usually having a magnetized needle which points to magnetic north swinging freely on a pivot" and that fits how it is used in One Piece. The Vivre Card also fits that definition since it finds the direction to a person or Vivre Card. Bastian9 01:33, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Then by the same logic Nami would be a compass because she finds the way to go too. If anything, a Vivre Card is just a magnet. 01:40, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Nami is "an instrument for finding direction" that's news to me. Bastian9 19:28, October 23, 2011 (UTC) It finds a person. The directional aspect of it is secondary. 03:42, October 24, 2011 (UTC) It finds a person by giving the direction to them. How is that secondary? Bastian9 12:36, October 24, 2011 (UTC) "Bible Card' Was this word ever officially spelled? On the official website, it is referred to as a "Bible Card". http://puu.sh/aA3ep/30b5452187.jpg. Mr. Whatever (talk) 10:22, August 1, 2014 (UTC) No, people have speculated that should be the spelling because of Kuma's Bible (since the cards would help target his ability), but that's all. I did see the spelling on the site but given the context (merchandise/campaign for anime concept art) I'm not sure on how official it is (I doubt Oda has much direct control over the site). 11:26, August 1, 2014 (UTC) How the Vivre Card works "The torn piece will point to and move towards the largest piece of the Vivre Card (as shown with Rayleigh's card) while the largest piece will point towards the person the Vivre Card was designed from (as shown with Ace's card)." I haven't been able to find any sources that would verify this. The only thing we know is what Lola said - that is, the torn pieces will move towards each other. I suggest the above info be removed until further confirmation. 22:19, July 18, 2015 (UTC) As the one looking for (and failing to find) evidence of the above statement, I support removing it for now. MizuakiYume (talk) 22:24, July 18, 2015 (UTC) No evidence = speculation, and speculation should be removed from articles. 22:26, July 18, 2015 (UTC) I thought the paper moves towards the person whose nail was used to create the paper (the piece Ace gave Luffy moved downwards in Impel Down), isn't that what Lola said? 22:37, July 18, 2015 (UTC) Yeah there is no evidence. It was just some speculation because of the how Rayleigh and Shakky used it. We don't even know if Shakky had the largest piece so there is no way to conferm this.ASL Pirates 22:39, July 18, 2015 (UTC) Lola's explanation on Thriller Bark: "The separated pieces move toward their fellows no matter where they are in the world." Nyon's explanation on Amazon Lily: "It shows you the 'direction' and 'vitality' of the owner." Rayleigh talking to Luffy on Amazon Lily: "I entrusted my vivre card to Shakky, otherwise I wouldn't be able to move freely." The above quotes would indicate that, at least in the case of the Straw Hats using Rayleigh's card to find their way back to Sabaody, each piece of the card would be drawn toward the other pieces, not toward Rayleigh (the person the card was created for). I'm not sure what's going on with Ace's vivre card telling Luffy to go downward, though... MizuakiYume (talk) 23:50, July 18, 2015 (UTC) Sounds like Lola's is worded the same as Nyon's just slightly different. Remove that wrong information since both quotes indicate the pieces have nothing to do with each other and only move towards the person the card was made from. SeaTerror (talk) 01:59, July 19, 2015 (UTC) Lola's quote indicates the opposite of what you're saying. The pieces of vivre card move toward their fellow pieces of vivre card when separated, no matter how far away from each other they are.MizuakiYume (talk) 03:11, July 19, 2015 (UTC) We know the card shifts in the direction of the person they are made from. 03:23, July 19, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, it's nothing to do with the other pieces of paper. A Vivre Card moves towards the person whose fingernail was used. If you tear off a piece of the card, then you have at least two pieces of paper that move towards that person. 10:24, July 19, 2015 (UTC) But that would create an incongruence because it wouldn't explain how Rayleigh was able to wander off while keeping his vivre cards pointing to sabaody. I'd like to also pointing out that in the filler arc of Z's ambition, Shuzo used a vivre card as tracking device. I know this is non-canon, however it still means that they used Rayleigh "version" as base for that. In case of Lola's and Nyon's explanations, they could have simply omitted or implied this detail, in fact if you have to explain what a vivre card do even in Rayleigh case, the most simple answer would be "it's used to track down a person". What I'm trying to say is: * If we go with "the vivre card point to the actual person", then we have no explanation for Rayleigh's case and less important for Shuzo actions (filler). * If we go with "the vivre card point to a piece hold by the owner", then all cases are explained and for Lola's and Nyon's explanations they were just simpler versions (or Oda changed the rules afterwards, but let's ignore this). I don't know the part about the bigger piece, if we have no sources for that let's just remove it (although that would make sense, since the "owner piece" is simply the biggest one). Here's Lola's explanation. Pretty clearly suggests that "the vivre card points to a piece held by the owner". And the logic seems to be that since the other piece is always with the owner, you know their direction by the piece's direction. So Nyon's explanation also works with this. Nowhere is it stated that the VIvre Cards point to the owner - and like Levi said, that would actually contradict the way Rayleigh used it, while the "points to another piece" system doesn't contradict anything. 12:33, July 19, 2015 (UTC) Seems to be point to another piece, and the implication is that Ace was holding the larger piece the whole time? But we might want to word the article in a way that leaves more wiggle room than assumptions? 12:39, July 19, 2015 (UTC) About Lola's explanation, we need to be careful on what translation we are using, having a direct translation would help a lot. In episode 381's translation (by Nakama-Fansub) she says "This paper will allow you to meet the one who also as it no matter where in the world they are" thus further supporting the piece-to-piece version. As I said, I think the Rayleigh part is the most crucial that suggests "the vivre card points to a piece held by the owner" version is the more likely one. That said, it's not that there aren't "plothole" with that too: "Ace you are going to be executed, what's that? Your vivre card? Sure keep it!". I'm sure if you ask Oda, he will tell you that he had it in his pants or some excuse like that as he always does. "The separated pieces move toward their fellows no matter where they are in the world." "Fellows" as in the person it was made from. Also nothing about Rayleigh matters because it was never stated he used his own. SeaTerror (talk) 17:54, July 19, 2015 (UTC) Trying to argue against a Japanese speaker on this, ST? Mizu already explained that she meant fellows as in fellow pieces. I don't even understand what you're trying to say with Rayleigh. Here's what happened: *Chapter 507: Rayleigh gives Vivre Cards to the Straw Hats so they can find him once he's done coating the ship. *Chapter 591: Rayleigh states he left his own Vivre Card with Shakky since he couldn't have moved around freely otherwise. *Chapter 593: Shakky is seen with Rayleigh's Vivre card, Caimie says the Straw Hats are going to follow it to get back to Sabaody. *Chapter 600: Straw Hats have mostly reunited except for Luffy, Shakky gives them the Vivre Card since that's what he'll be following. Now explain how the pieces move towards the person, again? 19:31, July 19, 2015 (UTC) Alright, are we done here? We seem to be very clearly wrong here, and we should fix that, ASAP. 02:43, July 21, 2015 (UTC) Ace gave Luffy a full Vivre Card. That would imply that the pieces don't react to each other and that it tracks to the person who it was made from instead. SeaTerror (talk) 03:33, July 21, 2015 (UTC) Well like ST said it does both. So if its not torn it moves towards the perosn but when it is it moves towards the other pieces. Or did Ace still have his virvre card on him? Plus then what would be the point of making them out of fingernails of the person they are supposed to be for when you could just make one that is attached to no one and moves towards itself. Its basically a guessing game at this point.ASL Pirates 05:44, July 21, 2015 (UTC) "Ace gave Luffy a full Vivre Card." - prove it or it's a groundless statement. Nowhere it is stated that it was a "full" vivre card and how can you tell it's a "full" one and not cut-piece anyway? "So if its not torn it moves towards the person but when it is it moves towards the other pieces" - that's making up things. " :"Plus then what would be the point of making them out of fingernails of the person they are supposed to be for when you could just make one that is attached to no one and moves towards itself" - remember that vivre cards also tell the owner life force. http://mangasee.co/manga/?series=OnePiece&chapter=159&index=1&page=13 Done catering to your laziness. SeaTerror (talk) 20:33, July 21, 2015 (UTC) ...What was the point of linking that, ST? I mean, what exactly does that prove? 20:40, July 21, 2015 (UTC) It proves that we shouldn't pay attention to him... * How's that a whole vivre card exactly? And how do you know how big an un-cut vivre card is anyway? * Ace's vivre card is a little smaller then a hand as you can see here and here (top left), but that should be weird because if that's a whole un-cut vivre card, why is roughly the same size has Rayleigh's half? What a mystery. Well obviously a piece of paper that's burning up is going to be smaller than a hand. Basic logic would tell you that. Plus you can clearly see that Ace's is actually larger. Not by much but still larger. SeaTerror (talk) 02:22, July 22, 2015 (UTC) Man you are really something. I knew you were going to say that and * You can see the edges of the paper here, it's just a rectangular as big as that, nothing more. Luffy also states "it's a '''little' burned"'' not "oh my god it's halved". * That's why I also posted this picture, that you obviously ignored, because there the vivre card is full and still smaller then a hand. I don't know how you can clearly see it's larger by "not much", but again you casually skipped over the fact you still didn't explained how you know how big a whole vivre card is supposed to be and how you know Ace's one was never cut. Which is your entire point, but minor details I guess. Being smaller than a hand doesn't mean anything since every single vivre card shown has been smaller than a hand. Also Ace's wasn't full then as you can tell it was burning on the edges. SeaTerror (talk) 00:54, July 24, 2015 (UTC) * "every single vivre card shown has been smaller than a hand" - that's the point, if every vivre card was roughly this big, how can you tell Ace's is a "whole" vivre card? * When Ace was freed, the vivre card was fully restore and it's not burning. It's also stated in the article itself. * You still didn't address anything else I/others said. Alright, seems like we're done here. Clear majority, closing this. 22:26, July 26, 2015 (UTC)